>> steve: a word about the jets? >> brian: they lost. it's over. it is tebow time. if you have to run from the tv, run to the radio. gretchen will be up there in half an hour. we don't know what she'll be wearing. >> steve: probably something like that. see you tomorrow. bill: is there a deal. what do you think? good morning, everybody. fox news alert. reports of progress to avoid the fiscal cliff where that calendar is moving toward it. both sides said to be giving some ground. only days before massive tax hikes hit every single american. we say good morning. live in new york. i'll bill hemmer. well come here. anytime we talk about the fiscal cliff good day for me. nice to see you, martha. martha: somewhat of a relief. you know, welcome back. bill: thank you. martha: tough few days up there for you and for everybody else. we're going to get to a little bit more of that in a little while but for now we want to focus own the speaker of the house, that man, john boehner, trying to work out a deal with

president obama as they discussed president's latest offer. calls for raising 1.2 trillion is the number being raised by revenue, taxes, basically over the next 10 years. it keeps in place the bush-era tax cuts for anyone making less, this is the new magic number on this. it was 250 as you remember. now they're at 400,000. some people think it should be a million dollars. lots of negotiating still to come. bill: we're told that is a big concession. sources tell us significant issues remain on the table. they are working on finer details. stuart varney with analysis. first, chief political correspondent carl cameron is live on the hill. we'll see if boehner is bob barker here in the end. what is the latest, carl? >> reporter: hey,. bill:. crunch time at the capitol and the fiscal cliff and how to avert it. there was a offer from the president that signals mr. obama is prepared to give a little bit on his insistence raising taxes on

wealthy americans. that jumped from incomes of 250,000 and above to 400. democrats say a big, big move by the president. whether or not that will actually go over with republicans particularly in the house is very, very open question. they're meeting as we speak over on the house side. mr. boehner and his leadership team are going to go over the details of this latest offer from the administration with rank-and-file house republicans. the unified republican leadership is key here. thus far boehner had the gop pretty much behind him. the speaker, his majority leader eric cantor, his whip, kevin mccarthy and budget chairman paul ryan have been very, very strongly locked in arms as they're negotiating with the president giving boehner an opportunity to go down there and saying what could be a feasible deal or not. there is lot of skepticism among those leaders about this proposal from the president. they say the tax relief is too much. still too high at $1.2 trillion and that the president's spending reductions aren't balanced.

they insist mr. boehner and the republicans have put the possibility of tax increases and letting bush tax cuts expire for the wealthiest on the table but their threshold is a million dollars of income and higher. by putting it on the table they say the president has to come up with significant spending reductions and they argue that has yet to appear. when they come out of the meeting at 9:00 republicans will have a lot more to say. they believe there is potential for progress but no deal yet. bill: two years ago they thought they had a deal and threw him out the door. 12, 13 days ago, what would be the timetable then, carl? >> reporter: virtually passed as we speak. because of the christmas holiday the likelihood of the house republicans getting any sort of a miracle deal together that could pass muster with the white house and democrats is small. if that miracle were to happen, it is less likely the senate could come back after christmas and get anything done before new year's. there has been a loss here in the senate.

the senator from the hawaii, daniel inouye at 88 years old passed away yesterday. that will likely cause interruption for a few days for memorial services next couple weeks. whether for the president and most members of congress to go to hawaii or for the late senator to lie in state at the capitol, all things would cut up more time, meaning in all likelihood, if they find an agreement that could be considered real they would have to give themselves a little bit of overtime and pass one of the legislative vehicles that essentially stops the clock to take it into new year's. that was not the plan. that is why they put together what was called sequester so they would be forced to put a legislative gun to their heads to make a deal. looks like they may give themselves a little bit of after school study time. bill: we'll see how that pays off. carl cameron leading our coverage. thank you, sir. martha: the bottom line really does this deal begin to address the economic problems that exist in this country? stuart varney, the anchor of "varney & company" on the fox business network, has

been thinking about this morning and for many days in fact. stuart, what do you think about this deal, does it help? >> okay, if you look at this purely economically, then this framework of a deal does not address america's two major economic problems. that would be growth and also the debt. just look at the spending side of the framework for this deal. the president is not offering any significant cut in social security benefits in the future. it's a tiny cut. if you look at medicare, the president wants to keep the age of eligibility at 65. no savings there by going to 67. the president wants a two-year debt limit debate. actually he wants a two year period, in which he can spend money freely, a blank check for spending because there will be no debt ceiling debate for two years. he also wants $50 billion worth of new spending on infrastructure. you add all of that lot up together, what you're looking at is a trillion dollar deficit for the next four years each and every

year. you're also looking, if you couple it with tax hikes there is also in that framework, you're looking at a growth rate of maybe 2 or 3% for the economy at best. not the 4, 5, 6% we want. directly to answer your question, martha, this framework does not answer america's principle economic problems of the day. martha: for those who are worried we are slipping closer to becoming a grease-like situation. it sound as if you're saying this is no remedy for that, this is a bandaid at best? >> no, it is not. you're guaranteed much higher deficits continuing into the future, at least a trillion dollars a year. greece has a debt problem. we have a significant debt problem. martha: indeed. stuart, thank you. >> sure. bill: $16 trillion. now to newtown, connecticut, attempted normalcy and so much heartache. schools in the area opening first time since friday's

massacre except of course sandy hook elementary which remains closed indefinitely as police continue their investigation there. there are questions whether it will be ever reopen. volunteers in the neighboring town of monroe, seven miles away, hard at work, getting a former middle school ready for sandy hook students. all of this as the grim task of bearing so many young innocents gets underway. 10:00 in the morning funeral services begin for james mattioli. followed by services for jessica reek coast. -- rekos. a rabbi spoke about that service. >> being celebrated as a pure innocent child by the promise of life ahead of him. who brought joy to his family and to his community and who will be sorely missed. as his older brother said he could have been anything if he had grown up.

this is tragedy that we have no answers for this. bill: rick leventhal live in new town with this now. do we know anymore details about the killer, rick? >> reporter: well, bill, we have learned new things about adam lanza. particularly he tried desperately to cover his tracks before his murderous rampage, smashing the computer hard drive according to police sources making it much more difficult to read his electronic data trail he left behind a former baby-sitter was saying there were early signs of his unpredictable behavior. adam's mother warned to keep close eye on the 12-year-old boy at all times. never turn his back on adam or go to the bathroom. less than a week before friday's shooting, nancy lanza, adam's mother that she was losing adam and he was getting worse. he suffered from asperger's a form of autism and he apparently used to burn

himself because he felt no pain. he spent most of the time alone in the two bedrooms that he had in the family's sprawling home and reading and playing computer games. police trying to learn all they can about adam lanza in the days ahead, bill. bill: two funerals yesterday. we mentioned more today, rick. >> reporter: yeah. and governor dan malloy attended one of those funerals for the two 6-year-old boys laid to rest yesterday. he talked about how difficult it was to find words at the funeral. how you try to feel their pain but you can't. how heartbreaking it was to see that little coffin. it was jack pinto and noah pozner buried yesterday. two more funerals today, for jessica rekos, a 6-year-old who loved horses and james matioli, who described by family as a numbers guy. they will be eulogized in sandy hook. sandy hook elementary remains a crime scene. no word if or when it will ever reopen. yesterday moving vans rolled

up to the doors hauling off all the desks and chairs, supply, moving them to former chalk hill middle school in monroe seven miles away. sandy hook survivors will attend the newly renovated chalk hill school sometime later this week. bill, the rest of the schools in newtown are opening today. we have seen a couple of school buses roll by, a small sign of normalcy returning to this beautiful community. bill: you mentioned anxiety of the parents even on this day. rick leventhal back live in newtown. martha: the tragedy at sandy hook is renewing calls to toughen america's gun laws even from some democrats who have strong ratings from the nra. virginia senator joe manchin recalling what happened in connecticut and calling it a tippingpoint. >> it's time to move beyond rhetoric. we need to sit down with a common sense discussion and move in a reasonable way and wholeheartedly to give people safe place in life, thinking a school might be

only safe haven a child had, and now that has been taken away. i think, i listen to all of you speaking this morning. mike, i think you're right on, this changed the dialogue. it should move beyond dialogue. we need action. martha: a lot of conversations along those lines in the last couple days. at a vigil in washington for the victims at sandy hook elementary, connecticut congresswoman and democrat rosa delora, say reasonable people need to come together to find screenable ways to prevent gun violence. here she is. >> we who serve in this institution need to take steps that are going to insure that these tragedies will not happen again. like insuring better access to quality mental health care, and yes, i belief in strengthening our gun control laws. martha: democrat frank lautenberg and dianne feinstein saying in the next congress they will reintroduce the bans on assault weapons and high

capacity magazines. lots more to be said about all of that. bill: talk of renewing gun control debate sends sale of firearms soaring. gun store owners said they see increased sale for ammunition which is some say is easier to ban than the weapons themselves. some stores reporting busiest days they have seen in years. >> big-time, friday and saturday especially the place was just wall-to-wall. they're going to do something. that's obvious. and people want to get stuff before a ban on whatever comes in. probably magazines. people get scared. it happens every time. >> we have 40 million regulations, you know, just like they had in prohibition. obviously prohibition didn't work. bill: with states performing so many background checks wait times usually minutes, jumped to 12 hours in some cases. coming up we'll talk about it with the former homeland security secretary, tom ridge. he is our guest coming up.

the topic of mental illness as former governor. he has a lot of experience at this. that is 9:30 a.m. eastern time. what i want you to understand, our audience to understand, how much sadness there is in that the town and how much they're trying to move forward. this will be a very difficult process and take a very, very long time. none of us has ever seen anything like this before. martha: think about kids getting back on school buses this morning. as a parent, it would feel that is what they need to do. get back into the routine and get moving with life in some way to restore a little bit of normalcy. as you point out, bill, from first-hand experience, so, so potent. bill: we're just getting started here. an independent report finished what really happened in benghazi. state department officials will testify later this week. in a moment we talk to john bolton about what is in that report, martha? martha: breaking news this morning. an american journalist released after five days in captivity in syria. we've got brand new details on that. >> the last five days were

very difficult. we're very happy to be out. we're very happy to be back in turkey. we love being here. we love this country. we appreciate all the help. the last five days, some days we would rather forget ♪

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hillary clinton will not testify for now. said to be recovering from that concussion. john bolton, former u.s. ambassador to the u.n. and fox news contributor and good morning to you. >> good morning. bill: tell me about this review board, what do they do, who is a part of this? >> it was appointed by the state department itself to look into the incident at benghazi. this is a standard procedure. i'm sure they have written a thorough report but it will not be the end of the controversy. bill: why would it not be if it is a thorough report. >> the people did the appointing are the people who did the questions. i don't think the conclusions will necessarily withstand scrutiny. they could cover three main areas. one, why did the stated department reject continued requests for enhanced security for before september the 11th? number two, could we have done more to protect our people during the attack. and numb 3, who came up with this ridiculous story that the whole thing was provoked

by the mohammed video. bill: you think you get answers to all three in a review like this. >> you have the capability of it, i do? >> this is not just former state department people. admiral mullen, former joint chiefs of staff. a member of the intelligence community is member of this board. they could reach out beyond the state department and i hope they did but we obviously don't know at this point. bill: we will get some word on the report and then it goes up to capitol hill, right. they can't keep a secret? >> there are two parts. classified version and unclassifieders have. we'll see the unclassified version in the hearing on thursday as you mentioned is a opportunity for congress to ask about it. bill: do you think that is must-see tv on thursday? >> i'm certainly going to watch it. i'm very disappointed secretary clinton is not there. obviously we wish her well for the holt situation. it is postponing the moment when she will have to testify. bill: she is going to testify according to the reports we're getting, not this month but perhaps

january after the new year. >> i think she waited successfully two months until the administrative review board is out. that way she can read the report and tailor the testimony accordingly not risk contradicting herself. bill: really? let all the information get out there and react and respond. >> i think the secretary should have been on the hill right after the 9/11 at tock to explain to congress what happened. she missed two critical points. she will miss the hearing on thursday and missed the famous sunday morning talk shows five days after that. bill: are you suggesting she is not trying to be tripped up on this or wants to have all the fact as they understand it now or she is trying to go around some of the fact? >> i think she tried to avoid speaking in public. i think these witnesses on thursday should be asked why the secretary didn't testify? why is the president said susan rice who had nothing to do with benghazi was the designated hitter? why didn't one of secretary clinton's two deputies testify? they will be up there thursday. they're certainly competent people. why didn't they testify?

bill: things to watch. two things. we'll have the report that leaks out, because it is unclassified, parts of it and the hearing later this week. this story is not over yet? >> not by a longshot. bill: we'll see where it goes after that. thank you, mr. amount ambassador, john bolton. martha. martha: we're getting new details on a veteran american correspondent held hostage last five days in syria. he is now free thankfully. he is starting to speak out what happened to him. bill: good news, today, huh, for a change. the nation grieves the sandy hook victims we'll debate how our country deals with mental health issues. we'll talk with former pennsylvania governor tom ridge who is with us this morning on that.

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bill: getting breaking news from the hill now. we mentioned this to carl cameron a few moments ago. john boehner apparently is planning to offer a plan b on the floor of the house in case the cliff can in the -- not be avoided. negotiations continue. we're getting this from the folks on the hill. we'll get more in a moment. a satellite launched only days ago by north korea appears to be dead. it could tumble around in orbit possibly for years. it was released in controversial rocket launch as a test for long-range missile technology. north korea claims the satellite, well it is still working they say but u.s. monitors say it is no longer broadcasting any type of signal. martha: fox news alert out of syria this morning where nbc is announcing that foreign correspondent richard engel and his production team are now fee and unhurt after getting captured there last thursday. it comes as opponents of president assad launch a new offensive near the capital of damascus.

leland vittert joins me live in jerusalem. leland, an incredibly dramatic story how they gained their freedom. >> reporter: no question about it. these guys were held for five days of the moved from safe house to safe house by pro-assad gunmen. that's when the pro-assad gunmen who had the nbc crew in the back of a minivan, if you will, were driving down the road, got to rebel check point there was a firefight ensued and that's when richard engel and his crew escaped out of the van. said literally help us, we're american journalists get us to safety. the rebels involved did just that. it was on a road similar to that engel and his crew were taken by gunpoint what they presume to be pro-government, pro-president assad forces, shiite militia members holding them. during the time they were being held they were told it was very awful situation. they endured mocks executions. a number of threats what would happen to the men. martha, this isn't -- is the

best way this story could end. one american still missing in that country. martha: everybody is very thankful this delled the way it did, leland t said a lot what is changing on the ground in syria. they believed they were traveling in rebel-held territory but obviously they were not. what is the latest there? >> reporter: well, this is an insurgency civil war. not only do you have the army fighting. you have all the pro-assad militias and you have the rebels. it appears the momentum has changed. it used to be the government is hunting rebels. rebels better armed and better trained are hunting the government but still these rebels have not been able to control major cities. they haven't taken aleppo. certainly have not taken the capital damascus. as things on the ground are shifting we're getting more and more indications, russia, syria's key ally are getting nervous. they moved warships in the

mediterranean to conceivably evacuate russian citizens into syria in things continue to deteriorate. there is question of chemical weapons. will assad use his chemical weapons in a last act of desperation? or will the rebels seize control. you have a lot of chemical weapons in the hands of many without command-and-control structures. martha: much of the chaos in syria but a little bit of order for rich around engel and his crew. thank you very much. bill:. government's cash problems come closer to a possible resolution a report on the staggering amount of money the government spends and whether or not that is sustainable. martha: as the funerals continue today for the connecticut school shooting victims there are new questions about how we can better address this serious mental health issues that have led to these kinds of tragedies across our country. as connecticut lawmakers pledge to take meaningful

action. >> i don't worry that we can't do anything about it. we can all imagine noah and jack standing right here, 6-year-old boys, easy for me with my 10 to 13-year-old daughters knowing jack and standing right here and saying, will you do it? hmm, it says here that cheerios helps lower cholesterol as part of a heart healthy diet. that's true. ...but you still have to go to the gym. ♪ the one and only, cheerios

bill: we mentioned this seven moments ago, seven minutes ago i should say, fox news alert. apparently house speaker john boehner is working on a plan b that would stop the allic tax hikes january 1st if we do not get a fiscal cliff deal in time. the clock is running. carl cameron, what do you have? >> reporter: bill, we were talking a short while ago how mr. boehner was going to talk to his rank-and-file members and leaders behind closed doors this morning at a meeting that started 9:00 about the president's offer last night to again try to

raise revenue, decrease spending and come up with a balanced plan to avoid the fiscal cliff of mandatory tax increases and spending cuts. turns out the republicans were probably going to be apprehensive about it, but mr. boehner went into the meeting with alternative. he is concerned about the calendar. so far inability to break the jog lam on a real deal here. the distance between the two sides. as a consequence he told his members he has got a plan b. i want to read remarks we know he is saying behind closed doors to his fellow republicans. he will say or has said, quote, for weeks senate republicans and a growing number of you, meaning house republicans have been pushing for us to pivot to a plan b i think there is better way but the white house can't seem to bring to a balanced approach and time is running short. taxes are going up on everyone january 1st. they are baked into current law and we have to stop whatever rate increase we can in the absence of alternative this morning, this morning a modified plan b is the plan. that plan b boehner is

proposing to house republicans could would be vote in the house to extend the tax reductions of the bush era on everybody making under a million dollars. that would potentially avert having taxes go up on the first of the year and damaging the economy. how this would be arranged with the senate and the president very much up in the air but a clear sign from house republicans that the time has all but run out and they need some sort of a stopgap measure to avert going over the cliff, hurting the economy with massive tax increases and spending reductions mandatory with some sort of a stopgap. whether or not that goes over with house republicans. democrats say this obviously will be a bad thing. negotiations do continue, bill. bill: that is important point. i want to emphasize negotiations do continue. just so our viewers no. bob corker is at the top of the 10:00 hour. he says we're nowhere near a deal. we'll talk with him about that. we expect to hear from speaker boehner at 11:00 a.m. eastern time, carl.

we'll be in touch with you. time's a wasting. carl cameron on the hill. martha: there are so many new questions now about how schools andow society can better address the issue of mental illness in light of the tragic school shooting in connecticut. adam lanza reportedly suffered from mental illness issues. we're still learning to what extent they existed and for how long they existed but he is clearly not the only gunman in these kinds of random mass shootings that we have seen who battled mental disorders. we're going to talk about that. how about this from connecticut senator joe lieberman? he says he believes family and friends need to get involved in these situations early on. >> we've got to ask parents, friends, school ficialts, if you see a child, a young person, that really looks like they're potentially, really troublesome, get them

mental health help. then we've got to ask ourselves as a society, is there enough mental health help available for these kids? >> boy, that is becoming the big important question in all of this or one of them clearly. i'm joined as former pennsylvania governor tom ridge who served as our country's first homeland security secretary. good to have you here today. >> always good to join you, martha. i'm sorry we joined to have a discussion about the horrific events at the elementary school. martha: it is so gut-wrenching, when you look deeper into this story. and particularly with this issue of mental illness. i want to pull up onto the screen a picture of several of these young men. there's a profile that emerges in the common qualities, all under 25 years old. you've got cho from the virginia tech shooting. you have adam lanza on the left from connecticut. you have jird loughner from

the tucson shooting. james holmes from the aurora, colorado, shooting. there are a lot of similar characteristics in these young men. all of them had intervention from school psychologist. several of them took medication on and off. what does it tell us what we're not doing right in terms of treating these issues? >> first of all i think it is very important that the discussion around what to do focuses not just on the second amendment. precisely on the profile and troubled profiles of so many of these actors. to your point, which is well-stated and very important in the national discussion, you take a look at the incident and come back and take a look at the individuals and there is, well it's not universally applied, there are many, many instances where these young men had serious mental health problems. when i served on the virginia tech panel it was quite obvious cho himself had a deteriorating mental condition that was recognized early on in grade

school and high school. followed all the way through. recognized by teachers and recognized by a special justice he was in potential of danger harming himself and the community, yet the treatment was inadequate. this is reminiscent of some of the challenges we had setting up homeland security, balancing individual rights with a need for communities to be safe and secure. it is not just the second amendment. there is a right of privacy. that is something we have to look at very carefully because it is not identified in the constitution but it is a right people, that the lawyers and the supreme court have protected for a long time but we've got to find the right balance. firearms in the hands of mentally disabled, mentally challenged individuals, maybe be at the epicenter of a lot of problems we have had. martha: you look at mental health and history of it in this country and we've gotten away from the time we had institutions and people were committed to an institution if their families could not deal with them. that understandably ran into some bad situations where people were committed. they were in institutions

that were horrible. that were offensive to everybody's sensibility. then we got into a time period where we wanted to sort of mainstream everybody. everybody should be able to live in society and you know, have the same opportunities everyone else has. now you have a situation where, there's a very poignant blog that went out this morning by a woman who is struggling with a child who she says is the next adam lanza, okay? and the desperation that this mother feels in the lack of ability to get help. i want to read some of this mother's blog to you this morning. she says, no one wants to send a 13-year-old genius who loves "harry potter" and his snuggle animal collection to jail but our society with its stigma on mental illness and its broken health care system does not provide us with other options. then another tortured soul shoots up a fast-food restaurant, a mall, a kindergarten classroom and she goes on to say we wring our hands and say something must be done. this poor mother showed up

at hospital, said i need help. someone take my child. he is threatening to kill my other children and me. the next day he is docile, and happy, mommy i will be better, i promise. what can we offer this woman? >> first of all she is herro inin my mind, she raised in a public way a situation a lot of parents would be very difficult for them to raise, public recognition that their son has a mental health challenge. she also used a word very appropriate. it is why it needs to be part of the national discussion. we stigmatize young people with mental health problems instead of receiving out trying to help them. clearly, clearly the mental health community has been adequately staff, inadequately funded for a long time. not that everybody needs to be institutionalized. not everybody needs to be put on a drug regimen. the fact of matter remains various degrees of mental health illness have to be recognized and dealt with. i love joe lieberman's call

for parents and friends to recognize these problem and direct these young people to help. the pattern of activity you reported, a lot of individuals involved in these mass murders have talked about suicide. they have talked about killing other people but can you think in this day and age, this generation do you want to snitch on your buddy who talked about doing something like that? it is cultural problem and mental health problem. we better address it soon and seriously. martha: one of the issues if someone hasn't been charged with any crime as adam lanza was not. he wasn't even on the radar of the law enforcement people in his neighborhood and town, you have very little recourse as a parent in terms of help. break your leg, you go to an emergency room you will get it fixed but if you have a child who is threatening to kill your other children or anyone else, you have very little recourse. it is really important topic we need to address here. thanks so much for talking about it tom ridge. merry christmas to you and your family. >> thank you, martha. bill: quick check of the

markets right now, we're up about 19 points. there is growing optimism on a deal. oh, yeah? we might find out in 20 minutes or so. we're waiting for the house speaker and senator bob corker out of tennessee. corker says i don't know what you guys are talking about, we're a long way from a deal on this thing. the markets are up, that is good news. the republicans meeting on the president's offer. if the speaker gives too much will republicans pay a hefty price? will republicans even go along with him in the house? we'll debate it. martha: and new details on this very important story this morning. this is a u.s. marine who locked up in a notorious mexican prison and chained to his bed as his family pleads and says this is a huge mistake. they want help from the government. >> examine this case. this is wrong, and do the right thing. he should be released immediately. this was an administrative mistake.

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all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. bill: here we go. we're awaiting house speaker john boehner. he will be at the microphone in a matter of moments. plan b apparently might be on the table as a backup to stop taxes from going up before the first of the year, in lieu of not arriving at a deal. we're hearing that the white house and speaker are closer. what's true? who knows. bob beckel, former democratic campaign manager. andrea tanteros, daily news columnist, both co-host of "the five." good morning to both of you. happy anniversary. >> happy anniversary? >> thank you, bill. bill: bob has no idea what we're talking about. >> like any man celebrating an anniversary. bill: it was this week five years ago where the two of you came on tv for the first time. >> has it been that long? bill: it has been that long. the time has flown. and what people, people are not giving us any credit for creating "the five." which

eventually led to that. >> franchise started right here. >> happy anniversary, andrea, bill. you did a terrific job in connecticut. i can't tell you. >> yes you did, bill. bill: tough story as you can well see. >> i couldn't imagine. bill: let's talk about this andrea. will republicans go along with boehner or tell him to get out of the room again? >> it depends what he is proposing. if he is proposing to have a vote extending all the bush tax cuts there is a very good chance they will go along with him but why didn't he do this earlier? i said it on the "the five" last week. my first suggestion, my plan a was walk away let obama own it. as we can see he is conceding nothing. but the plan b from the start, pass your own plan, and then leave and get your guys on record, your guys and gals in the house gop conference on record with something they can take back to their district. a lot of these members, bill, are petrified to vote for increased taxes because

think about it. they have to run for re-election in two years. they're fearing the primaries from people on the right. so pass your own bill and let harry reid have the guts to bring it to the floor. i doubt he will. bill: where are you on this today, bob? >> first of all i think republicans would pay a price for not going along with this. the idea of a million, millionaire tax basically what we're talking about here is something i can not imagine there are too many millionaires in most of these districts. from a political standpoint have everybody get a tax on 1st of january they would blame the republicans no question about it. press would. i would. most of democrats and president would. here's the deal. of course boehner will have to get something for this. the question is it on entitlements? yes. can you get entitlements written by end of this year? of course not. what has to be whatever the deal is some date certain when they report out a change to entitlements with some figure attached to it. now, and if not they could come back and, undo the tax rate increase.

that is only way i could see they do it. >> the problem is --. bill: did you want to respond, andrea i'm sorry? it is your anniversary. i should respect that. >> where is the cake, right? we'll get celebrate a deal. there. i don't think there is political appetite in president obama's caucus to get the members to agree on some form of entitlements. frankly, bill, the president has conceded nothing. bill: let me make this point. you guys can react to it. and there's a lot of reporting about this throughout the morning. they're talking about a deal that will save $2 trillion over 10 years. we're already at 16 trillion. we'll be at 20 trillion in four years for sure. saving $2 trillion? over the next 10 years? we're left with a huge bag on our hands at the end of that deal anyway, aren't we, bob? >> yeah. first of all, funny what you say 2 trillion if it is

trump change. in this day and age it seems like that. bill: ridiculous, right. >> what you don't include entitlement cuts which there will be. here is answer for democratic caucus, if republicans go along with tax rate increases on rich then the democrats if they don't do something on entitlements will take political heat for it. bill: all right. andrea. do you agree with that? >> i think that bob is being actually reasonable at this moment and he has some good ideas that he mentioned before like raising age of eligibility, but i don't think a lot of members in the democratic caucus will go along with it. i don't. as far as raising taxes on rich, bob, they still can't agree what is rich. is it going to be million dollars? president says 400,000. and i do agree with you on one point, bob, republicans do not want to look like they're protecting the rich but i think they figure we're getting blamed anyway so we might as well stand up for --. bill: sorry, guys. we did not, we'll get to that in a moment. speaker boehner at the top

the hour. bob corker, spub republican senator from tennessee will be our guest in 10 minutes. he says today, we're not close. i'm surprised at reporting today. unless something happened at 6:00 a.m. we're not close to a deal. we'll get his reaction. see you guys on "the five". from us to you, happy anniversary. >> thank you, bill. bill: five years together. >> and you who put the threesome together. bill: like peter, paul and mary. bye-bye. martha: thanks you guys. this is exactly what you were just talking about. how much comes into the government coffers and how much more goes out? we all know one number is a lot bigger than the other, right? where do your tax dollars go? a shocking look. bill: also one of a kind training facility for law enforcement getting ready for any possible terror threat that may be coming your way. ♪

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martha: well the white house and congress trying to strike a balance between spending cuts and tax increases. you've heard that, right? think about this. every day the government takes in $6 billion and it spends 10 dal billion. so where is all that money actually going? doug mckelway is live in washington with a closer look at the cost of all that spending. my, my. hey, doug. >> reporter: martha, good morning to you. virtually every president since reagan talked about the need to reduce deficit spending of the president obama is no exception. >> i've shown myself willing to make the tough decisions when it comes to government spending. >> reporter: but in talks to avoid the fiscal cliff speaker john boehner insists

that the president's actions speak very differently than his words. >> it's clear the president is just not serious about cutting spending but spending is the problem. >> reporter: so how big of a problem? let's take a look at last november alone. each day that month the government brought in about $5 billion of revenue but we spent more than $11 billion a in november. the difference? obviously $6 billion. here's where most of that money goes. the top four outlays. at top of the list the department of health and human services which goes through $3 billion of your tax as day. social security is close second at $2.5 billion daily. military programs come in at 1.8 billion daily. but economists say most concerning is the interest on the debt. right now it is at $854 million a day. and as interest rates rise that number goes up, creating potential snowball effect of creating more to

borrow more. >> this is not theoretical. this is not a classroom exercise. you look at europe and see what happens if we continue down this path very much longer that is place we don't want to go. >> reporter: primary driver of all the debt spending, medicare, medicaid, and social security. and a nation unwilling to rein in their costs. >> it's like your responsible brother-in-law runs up the credit cards and goes bust and says the real problem is because you stopped sending me checks. >> reporter: brooks says we have become a debtor nation with a mentality that says if we can squeeze more money out of people who are working that can solve the problem. he says that is simply not so. martha? martha: interesting. sad, interesting. i don't know whether to laugh or cry. thank you. bill: there is a college freshman found dead at a fraternity house. now 20 members of the group facing criminal charges, 20. we'll tell you why. to the best vacation spot on earth. (all) the gulf!

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martha: getting ready for news on the fiscal cliff issue here this morning. it is plan b for republican leaders who are hoping to avoid looming tax hikes in case a fiscal cliff deal fails before january the 1st. waiting for an update right now, expect to get it any minute. both republicans and democrats, john boehner meeting with his caucus to sell the plan b issue, keeping taxes the same for anyone under a million dollars a year. we have heard the president is at 400,000 on that number. they are moving towards the middle. i'm martha maccallum. brand-new hour of "america's newsroom." bill: i'm bill hemmer. negotiations continue. we are told with the white house they continue on a broader tax and spending deal. will they get that deal? bob corker out of tennessee member of the senate committee my guest now. i'm going to use your words, we're not close.

>> no. bill: tell me. >> the president has yet to layout tangible entitlement reforms. bill, i've been trying to get us to pivot to that for almost a month now and he wants a debt ceiling increase, and do away with the sequester but he doesn't want to layout tangible entitlement reforms. we are not even close to a deal in my opinion. speaker john boehner has done everything possible to put this issue in the rear view mirror so we can start january 1st focused on growing our economy. unfortunately the white house is still not coming forth with i think at least a trillion dollars in entitlement reforms are needed right now to cause our country to be able to move beyond this. at present there is nothing tangible. what they are offering is a fiscal cliff a year from now with undetermined cost cutting. bill: let me troy and cut through try and cut through a

couple of things right here. you're saying the deal cannot go forward because there is not enough entitlement reform. >> absolutely. bill: the house is set to move on a bill possibly today or later on the week, to rescue the bulk of the country from a tax increase. then you say unfortunately that is the only thing that will happen this year. if that is the only thing that happens this year, then taxes do go up bu up on everybody who makes less than a million dollars a year. the house republicans fighting this battle for years now will go into the new year and will have voted on a measure in the end to raise taxes. >> no, there is a way, bill, that they can vote and not raise taxes. they can actually vote to freeze everybody's taxes. they can vote to freeze everybody under a million. bill: for everyone. >> yeah. what can happen is all of them can vote to keep the bush tax cuts in place, and when it comes over to the senate then the senate changes it, obviously i'd

be voting the way the house members have voted, but, no, there is a way of doing that without them actually voting for any kind of tax increase. bill: i want to be clear about that. the way i read your comment from earlier today suggested that house republicans would vote on raising taxes. >> no. bill: whether it's a millionaire or whether it's not. then you go into the new year that is the only thing you get accomplished now. >> it's unfortunate. i don't know how, though, bill, that you can agree to give away the debt ceiling increase to this president who is red lining our country with spending right now. he wants us to give away the debt ceiling, do away with the sequester which is 1.2 trillion in reductions over the next decade and all he's laying on the table is 400 billion in reductions that are specific, only 200 billion of those are entitlements and another to be tkerpd discussion that lend in another fiscal cliff in a year. so, bill i think what the house is saying is that look, we realize that we realize where we

are, we want to rescue everybody who makes under a million dollars. they are still not going to vote for any tax increase. there is a way they can do that. unfortunately we'll carry this onto the debt ceiling and speaker john boehner has been trying to resolve this. i think he's been a hero in this. but the president still is not forthcoming, bill, with any tangible entitlement reforms. without that you cannot save our country without doing that. bill: i'm reading through a lot of the reports. let me -- the amount of spending you'll save in ten years which amounts to $2 trillion. when you consider in four year's time we'll be at $20 trillion. it's such a small amount. you're going to go into the new year and none of this gets accomplished. >> and you'll have the debt ceiling in february or march which will be a whole other round of discussion. bill: what is the impact and that is the case and reality and the way it plays out, is the impact on our economy.

>> it's terrible, absolutely terrible, bill. i laid out a bill about three weeks ago that specifically said the things that we needed to do as a nation, and i don't think anybody else has actually done that in legislative language. what this nation needs is to put this in the rear view mirror, come up with 4 1/2 to $5 trillion of reforms and savings and cuts to really lower the deficit that you're talking about. by the way in the out years, bill, if you make entitlement reforms the numbers are tens of trillions of dollars and you save those programs for future generations. no it's an absolute travesty that we are where we are, we are a great nation, every developed country in the world knows our greatest threat is our own fiscal solvency and we have a president that we have to try to leverage into a place of doing the things that are necessary for our country. it's a travesty. what this means is there are americans of all walks of life that will not see the economic prospects this next year that

otherwise they would have seen, because this president is unwilling to layout a cone wreath plan tconcrete plan to save this nation. i think speaker boehner has been trying to get there. i think it's a travesty. bill: thank you for your time. bob corker is a republican from tennessee. martha: you think about the fear that we could go over this fiscal cliff, and that the future looks very dark if we are not able to get our hands around the debt that you all were just discussing. now we are learning that eric cantor has told the caucus that there will be a vote likely on a republican fiscal cliff tax plan in the house that could come this week. that doesn't necessarily move the ball along too dramatically in this picture, because everybody knows that the republican side in the house is going to vote on a deal that would have a lot of spending cuts in it and it's something that the president would be unlikely to sign into law.

we are waiting for john boehner to come in right now. he'll be with the usual team. kevin mccarthy will be there, kathy mcmorris, people working to hold the fiscal line and get spending cuts, they want a million dollar cut off for the taxes to increase. that seems like something that might be palatable on the republican side. we really don't know in terms of the larger republican house vote whether or not john boehner could get those votes because there are folks in the house who want to see absolutely no tax increases on anybody as part of this deal. so it is quite abreu that we are working on here, and bob corker makes significant points for the republican side in terms of doing something that really creates reform, that changes the system, that works on medicare, that works on social security in a way that will start to improve our fiscal situation down the road and might get us out of the whole longer term.

that is what seems to be missing here. bill: it's december 18th on the calendar. we knew months ago at some point we were going to reach crunch time. i don't think we are at that point yet. you can feel the gears working in that direction as of today, because -- martha: i think people are so fed up with this process of having to take everything to the last minute to get it done. then what happens is, and bob beckel said it earlier, well there is just no time right now to do tax reform, there is no time to do entitlement reforms, and americans are told time and time again that they are out of time. then you know what happens, before you know it you're too close to the next election to get anything done, and i just think the frustration level is so huge right now with all of this. bill: if you pick up the lines out of washington some of the deals that they have been talking about over the past couple of days would save the country $2 trillion over a period of ten years, which i mean $2 trillion, that is a massive amount of money. but yet when the national debt stands at 16.3 trillion now and

it's steadily increasing and goes up higher possibly to $20 trillion three or four years ago, what does $2 trillion ten years ago get you? that's what moves corker around to his big idea, about do 4, 4 1/2, $5 trillion, to a grand bargain to reduce the spending and the spending that we have watched go up increasingly by the minute in washington. martha: we are getting information from our producer on the hill. basically he's highlighting what i just mentioned a moment ago. we don't really know what is going to happen on the house republican side even. you don't know how difficult they may be having at rallying the troops in terms of even a million dollar level for increases on taxes because there will be, you know, all of those tea tea party republicans and those he committed to not

increasing taxes at all will they put at risk their re-election. lindsey graham said the real issue will be the debt ceiling, because as we know the president wants a hands-off approach to the debt ceiling. they want to be able to raise it whenever they think it's necessary. we've heard timothy geithner talk in great detail about how we can't risk the credibility of the u.s. dollar, the u.s. economy, the financial system and having those downgrades come if we don't raise the debt limit. a lot of folks are saying how can we possibly allow a limitless credit card for the united states government without any check on that. a major issue of contention here as well. bob corker -- i'm sure he is right, they may be very far apart oncoming to any conclusion at all. bill: speaker boehner has met with members of his party. we should see him in a matter of moments. let's take a quick break here,

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martha: we are back and we are waiting for john boehner to surface in that room and talk about where this is going with the fiscal cliff negotiations. steve hayes is with me now with "the weekly standard" and fox news contributor. how is this going. >> i think our focused on exactly the right question. what did speaker john boehner

say to his conference that would allow his people to accept some kind of a grand bargain which seems to be what he would prefer at this point. there is deep skepticism among the conservatives in the house of representatives who say we are not voting for tax increases not because we are being object sta nat, we agree in principle it's not a good idea to raise taxes and government is spending too much, that is the big problem. >> when you look at the deal in terms . outline that we are getting of it, no increase in the medicare age which many people think is reasonable, not to raise it right now but down the road which echoes the paul ryan plan as one of his elements, raise the rate for folks under 55 right now, not even a compromise on that yet, steve. >> i think this is the fundamental problem. whatever we see come out of these fiscal cliff negotiations it's almost certain not to get to the heart of the real problem. the drivers of our debt are

entitlements, we are talking about spending 60% of our budget on entitlements on a handful of programs that are -- that the spending is automatic. we don't control it from year to year. unless you dramatically reform those programs you're not going to get in front of the debt problem that the country faces. you're certainly not going to change the trajectory of the u.s. national debt. and unless and until you do that all you're doing is sort of meddling at the margins. martha: this sort of distaste on the democrat's side for take on this issue in any meaningful way, i just wonder, you know, do they look at it and say, well, now, it won us a presiden presidential election promising we won't touch any entitlements. but where is the for sight, looking down the road? i think people are so distrustful now of congress' ability to get anything done that will change the course of where we are headed in this country long term. >> yeah they should be

distrustful. that is part of the problem is that congress refuses to take these issues seriously. it's not just congress. remember, president obama is the president of the united states and he ran the first time saying that he was going to get in front of these issues that he was going -- martha: line-by-line he was going to go through every single program. >> exactly. if you look at the comments he made in the very first month of his presidency back in 2009 he said that the central park to getting in front of the u.s. spending problem is going to be tackling entitlements. and he hasn't done that. the only indications that he's given at all that he was willing to contemplate this came in the context of the debt ceiling negotiations and even those the white house refused repeatedly to put on paper, to be specific about. so he hasn't been serious about this. and i think fundamentally this is a problem of leadership at the presidential level. martha: all right. they are coming out now, steve. thanks a lot. let's listen to this and get your thoughts on it later. >> good morning, everyone. our hope continues to be to

reach an agreement with the president on a balanced approach that averts the fiscal cliff. what we've offered meets the definition of balance, but the president is not there yet. the white house offered yesterday essentially a $1.3 trillion in new revenues for only $850 billion in net spending reductions. that is not balanced in my opinion. so at the same time we are going to continue to talk with the president, we are going to also move plan b. i think we all know that every income tax filer in america is going to pay higher rates come january the 1st unless congress acts. so i believe it's important that we protect as many american taxpayers as we can. and our plan b would protect american taxpayers who make a million dollars or less and have all of their current rates

extended. i continue to have hope that we can reach a broader agreement with the white house that would reduce spending as well as have revenues on the table. i think it would be better for our country, but at this point having a back up plan to make sure that as few american taxpayers are affected by this increase as possible, moving down that path is the right course of action for us. >> good morning. first of all i'd like to say that i think all of our hearts and prayers are with the families in newtown, connecticut. as a father i cannot even imagine the utter horror that those families are going through right now grieving the loss of their children and their loved ones. as far as the fiscal cliff is concerned as the speaker said we remain committed to trying to minimize the impact on

hard-working families and small businesses in this country, as far as tax increases are concerned. we look to find the answer to solve the problem on the spending issue here in washington. the president is not yet there, he has not come to where he needs to be in order for us to push through a bill that really does begin to address the problem. and as the speaker said, that's why we are now discussing and alternative plan if the president and the white house cannot come our way. thank you. >> as the speaker and the leader said, we've been trying to make sure we do not go off this fiscal cliff. while at the same time put america on a different path, one for job creation, one that also takes care of our spending. i think many times the speaker felt that maybe he was negotiating with himself. after plan, after plan where the president stayed silent. those three weeks right after

the election when the first idea was sent across from the president to the speaker we heard nothing but silence. unfortunately today we are going to have to go to plan b. because we want to make sure we do not go off the cliff and we want to make sure that we keep an economy where jobs can be created. but the thing we have to remember is where we are in the situation. we are two months into a new fiscal year. we should always look at the numbers, because they can tell you in a scenario where we are. in two months we are $292 billion in debt. when you read the numbers there is some positive news in it, revenues are up by 10%, $30 billion. that is 1 billion less than you'd get if you just raised the top two rates for the first year. but the sad reality is spending is up 16%. $87billion. that is where the problem lies, that's where the president has

to start talking about and that's what we want to solve in the long run. an america for the children and the future that we can build and one that can create jobs. martha: that is the majority whip kevin mccarthy saying we are taking in more revenue, that is good news but we are spending way out pacing what we are taking in again in the new fiscal year and he's questioning what the white house would like to do about that situation going down the road, so nowhere is where we appear to be on the fiscal cliff. they will try to get a vote through on the republican side with this plan b issue. and we'll tell you where that is going to take us. bill: it looks like the republicans are returning serve. martha: yes. bill: we'll see what the white house does next. december 18th, folks on the calendar. there is new evidence about the school shooting massacre but as police continue that investigation they are not so certain it will do much good. we'll explain what is happening with that in a moment. martha: abg a look at this.

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bill: we are hearing from connecticut state police saying they have very good evidence, that ace quote now that could answer questions about adam lanza's motive. he did not make it easy for investigators. there are several reports unconfirmed but there are reports that he removed his computer's hard drive disk and smashed it to pieces. but police will not stop until they have the answers to that. >> we going to do everything that it takes to insur inch even surinsure we get all the

evidence and conduct interviews to paint a clear picture as to exactly how and why this tragedy occurred. >> ron whaoerl is a former d.c. homicide detective. good morning to you. you put a series of thoughts toegt that create one theory. go ahead, explain that and then we'll talk about that. >> first of all we are dealing with a person as everybody has been saying that is possibly mentally ill. not only is he possibly mentally ill he's a very cold and calculated killer. let's look at some of the evidence that we've heard about already, bill real quickly the police have said that they have very good evidence. what could that very good evidence be? what i think it is, i think on that computer hard drive what they will find once they are able to get into it is that this guy had been researching a lot of the activity surrounding the aurora, colorado shooting and specifically the mindset of james holmes who was the shooter who had a very similar mindset to this guy lanza last week.

bill: are you saying that, or do you have that on authority? >> no, no, no -- bill: that is your theory. >> this is what i believe. this is just a theory. this is what i believe. if you look at both of these individuals and their mindsets they are very similar. now why the elementary school, bill? that is a question that everybody has been asking. now just yesterday the police department said there was no connection between lanza and the elementary school, but here is the correlation right here. where will you find a large number of children together on a friday morning? at an elementary school. how do you affect the fabric, the core of this nation especially the adults, you attack the children. that is the same mindset, bill that the colorado shooter had. bill: now hold on now, okay. his home is apparently ten miles from the school. there are other schools along that road that you know of. >> right. bill: they have said that adam lanza has no connection to the

school. they have not defined what the mother's relationship was. rememberer early on we thought twausz she was a teacher. two sources close to the police department said she volunteered at the school. i talked to police in connecticut as well and i asked about the hard drive. they would not confirm any of this information that is being reported today. >> right. but you know, he was familiar, i think, bill, and you may know from being up there the past couple of days, but it's been reported that he was familiar with that school. he was familiar with that area, and typically, bill, in a situation like this the shooter, especially an active shooter will go to a place that they are somewhat familiar w. why? because they are going to try to plan their escape at the same time. i think all of these facets, once they come together, we going to see a striking similarity to the aurora colorado shooter. bill: we will watch all that and see if your theory pans out. as for this computer we don't know if it was his or his

mother's. we don't know in the end if it was truly smashed up or if it were how much of it was destroyed. we are waiting for a lot of this stuff as you know. answers are illusive. thank you, rod wheeler trying to piece this together as are so many millions of us. thank you. martha: the latest on the marine veteran who is looked up in mexico. can anything be done to bring this young man, john hammer, who is chained to that bed in mexico, bring him home? does his military status have anything to do with why he's being held that way? >> i didn't open that letter until this morning. they specifically state that he is being chained because of his military experience. so for the people that have been asking me, you know, why do you think he's chained, and now we know.

martha: fox news alert as america gets its first look at a former marinas he sits locked up in a mexican prison, shirtless and chained to the bed post over what lawyers say is a trumped up charge of carrying a supposedly illegal shotgun over the u.s. border into mexico. john hammer appears to be unharmed in this image, but the conditions that he's being held in are what is worrying his family. and when his mother was asked about how this photo made her feel when she saw it earlier today, she said the emotions for her are simply too much to bear. >> i'm shattered. i was just shattered. he looks -- he looks so hopeless, and, you know, as a mother to see your child look like that, and not be able to help them is just -- it feels obscene. martha: i can just imagine how she feels. eric shawn is here with us here in new york on the background on this story. good morning, eric. >> he served in iraq and tkpw-pbz and no afghanistan and

you can see former u.s. marine john hammer is locked in solitary confinement in a mexican prison chained by his foot to a bed over what his family calls a clerical error. they were on the way to hunt and surf in costa rica. when they arrived in mexico they were arrested for bringing in an illegal weapon, a gun his mother says is an antique that belonged to this is great grandfather and tried to repbl register. mexican authorities said the barrel was too short under the legal limits there. his mother told fox & friends this morning it's all an administrative mistake. >> johnny made an administrative mistake, he should have registered the gun at an embassy in the united states before going over there. basically he has been in jail for four months, chained to a bed over a clerical error. >> she does not holdout hope that john will be home by christmas because his next court date doesn't come until the

middle of january, martha. martha: what is the mexican government saying about this case? >> reporter: the mexican government and the ambassador says antique or not it's illinois legal tomorrow port guns into the country. that's why john was arrested. there is a letter from the u.s. ambassador saying the fact that this case has been this process since august is normal. given the nature of the felony he was detained for. introducing or producing weapons of this kind in mexico regard leafs intent is illegal and considered a serious offense. the state department also says americans are arrested in mexico's every year for violating the country's gun laws. a disabled veteran has started an online facebook, free john hammer. if he is not free he faces 12 more years in a mexican prison if convicted. martha: just imagine what his family is going through, eric.

thank you for the background on all of that. here with more on this case. kully simpson is a former secretary of defense, a senior legal fellow at the heritage foundation and we thank him for joining us. and apollio acosta is a former director in the embassy in mexico city. apollo, do you agree there is anyway he can be home for christmas? >> i don't see that he'll be home for christmas at all. i think, you know, the earlier reports -- his next hearing is in mid january and i don't expect any action to be taken until then. martha: what do you make of this case, kully? >> it's a tragedy. martha: let's go to kully first. >> thanks, martha it's a tragedy. from what i've read he actually tried to speak with u.s. custom and border patrol agents before he crossed the mexican border to

make sure it was okay to bring this 24-inch, 410 shotgun transit through mexico to go surfing down in costa rica, he clearly had no ill intent. i agree with my coguest that it doesn't look like there will be any action except for the court action in january. the administration needs to do more quietly behind the scenes to make sure he's provided the counselor services he deserves and has a right to have especially as a combat decorated marine. martha: is it typical for this kind of violation to garner this kind of prison sentence and this kind of treatment. he's shirtless and kheupbd to a bed, really? for bringing an unregistered gun across the border? look at fast and furious we've seen guns fly across this border and nobody seems to pay the price except for some people that lost their lives in that transaction. >> let's be clear the conditions in mexican jails are

deplorable. they address the eupl procedur the importation of weapons as described by the ambassador. the intention of this american was not to violate mexican immigration law. what i find even more deplorable is that the mexican government will be very -- very harsh on any treatment of their mexican citizens even if they enter the country illegally and violate the law within tension. in this particular case it goes to say that there was no intent on mr. hammer to violate the law as he entered mexico, he tried to declare the weapon. yet i will tell you that mexican prosecutors will not back off regardless of what the intent of mr. hammer was. martha: all right. so you look for a way to deal with this problem in washington, diplomatically behind closed doors so it doesn't become something that ha is an epl bar a asment to the mexican government if they appear to back down on the charges against this young man. what is the best way for his family to pursue this and what

do you think is the best way for the the government to handle it? stphreu think th >> i think the family is doing the right thing. get on the media, contact the representatives. representatives have written the soak of state in the united states and the media needs to keep on this story. if there is a plea in january or shortly there after or a conviction after a trial it's at that point when he's sentenced when the government of the united states has the most leverage, they can say, look you got your pound of flesh, you prosecuted him, that sentence is way too long. we'll take care the situation and bring him home. justice is served, now it's time to bring him home. i think pressure really matterses especially behind the scenes. if the u.s. government really wanted this guy home they could do a lot to pressure the mexican government behind the scenes to make it happen some time in january. martha: we'll stay on it. thank you for being with us today. bill: a night of heavy drinking

and a 19-year-old is found dead. now members of a college fraternity are facing charges, and some of those charges are even felonies. >> he wanted to be liked. he wanted to be accepted. the terms that the fraternity placed on him is that he had to go through this. >> he had to drink? >> yes. copd makes it hard to breathe,

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martha: out of the sadness in newtown, connecticut we are learning today an incredible story. this man lives near sandy hook elementary school and he's speaking out about his experience of coming home and finding six small children sitting in a semi circle on his lawn. he had heard the gunfire on his way back from breakfast at a local diner and he thought it was a hunter, then he saw these children sitting on his front lawn. he started to talk to them, gave him juice and toys and they recounted what had happened . listen to this. >> over the next 30 minutes they just described what happened,

little by little, and these two boys kept saying, we can't go back to school, we can't go back to school. our teacher is deed. mrs. soto, we don't have a teacher. and i couldn't believe that. i couldn't take that in. i had no idea what had happened. martha: so, so, so sad. and listening to his story, and he said at first he saw them on the lawn i thought they were putting on apply or something. he was trying to understand what they could possibly be doing on his front lawn. we all know how children feel about his teacher, it is the most important person in their life outside of their family. your heart just breaks listening to the story. school has begun again for other children in sandy hook but not the children that go to the elementary school. we continue to bring you their stories throughout the week. bill: it will be a tough day there again today with the parents sending their kid back to school and wondering if they

are okay and dropping them off and picking them up and on it goes for them, sore so many. let's turn our attention now, another alleged hazing incident that has turned into deadly results leading to charges against more than 20 members of a fraternity. this is northern illinois university, five face felony charges. police say 19-year-old freshman was found dead in the fraternity house after a night of heavy drinking, blood/alcohol level five times the legal limit in that young man. >> you have to run a gauntlet of liquor on doing whatever it is all the girls tell you until you find a girl that's yours. it involves drinking anywhere from two to five shots of liquor per girl. >> a criminal defense attorney is looking into this with me. this was a ritual called parents' night? >> good morning. bill. it's crazy what they did is the

juniors and seniors at the fraternity would have the freshman being hazed go room to room. they would be asked questions and every time they would answer a question they have to do another shot. they go room to room to room doing a shot, a shot, a shot, we can imagine how many shots he actually did. the fraternity has 1010, 15, 20 rooms, we are talking about that many shots. several of the freshman were left unconscious, one of them actually died. it was a pretty horrific experience. five felonies and 17 misdemeanors came out of this. bill: a lot of times you hear about charges on this but not felonies very often. why this this case? >> the pendulum has essentially swung too far, like in the last case we saw there have been a tremendous amount of hazing problems in this country. texas texas a&m, youngstown, yale had one. what they are doing now the legislate laters if you will are in 45 of the 50 states are coming up with felony charges where if they don't get prior approval for the incident and if their conduct is so outrageous, so negligent or in tension althere are statutes enacted to

actually hold the people, make them accountable from cornell university all the way to texas a&m. bill: is there evidence of intent to harm david? have you found that yet? >> the answer is there is evidence of intent to harm, not to kill. well intent to get them drunk and it's violently drunk. you need not show intent you can show a recklessness. a reckless disregard for mental or physical well-being that is enough under the felony statutes in many much the states. bill: it is enough. >> it is. and the legislature intentionally made it a lower burden, a lesser of a standard to essentially stop that pendulum swinging. you can't have these kids just doing 15, 20, 25 shots in a night without it being harmful to them. bill: if it is proven out, it's been reported that david knowingly and willingly took part in this drinking game. this that holds up how does that factor into these charges? >> well, there is in practically

all the states there is no self, there is no defense, there is no defense that i consented or i knew about it because all these kids want to get in a fraternity. it's not applicable in these instances. they could be going to jail these kids. bill: what would be the penalty then? a felony in a case like this could be? >> generally one to three years, some maybe probation. it could be a good year in jail if in fact the prosecutors get what they want. bill: for a 120-year-old student. >> absolutely and thrown out of the school, et cetera. bill: a high price to pay. we'll see how this untpoepldz here anunfolds here and our best to the family. >> it's very sad. martha: let's head over to jenna lee and find out what she has coming up. jenna: we will have continuing coverage out of newtown the latest developments out of connecticut. we'll take some of our viewer questions about the media coverage of this event as well, whether that is doing more harm than good. we'll tackle that in our news watch panel. iran now says our actions in

syria and turkey are setting us up for a world war. that is what they say. why? is that a credible threat? we'll talk about that. plus it looks like a possible deal to avert the so-called fiscal cliff, we'll keep you posted on the actions out of d.c. one company out of california is actually making some money off of this whole fiscal cliff thing. we'll tell you how. martha: it's a good trick. jenna thanks a lot. it is a training facility like none other in the world training tens of thousands of law enforcement officers to stop any number of they arer threat they they are or threats before they happen. a good idea, right? we'll take an inside look at the highly secretive operation. [ male announcer ] this december, remember -- you can stay in and share something...

or you can get out there and actually share something. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is on. this is the pursuit of perfection.

bill: today we remember hawaii senator daniel inoye he died

yesterday of respiratory complications. he was 17 when the japanese attacked pearl harbor and joined the military two years later and received the medal of honor for a battle against the germans where he was severely wounded, lost an arm. he was a member of hawaii's first congressional delegation before winning a senate seat and serving for nearly 50 years. >> we'll all miss him and that is a gross understatement. >> he lived a remarkable american life filled with dignity and grace of the true hero that he was. bill: in 2009 he become the chairman much the senate appropriations committee and the president pro tem making him third in line for the presidency. daniel, nouye. a senator, 88 years old. marthaa one of a kind training

facility for law enforcement where officers train to threat any terrorist threat. it located in buns wick, georgia, and that is where we find none other than of course steve harrigan. tell bus this place that you're visiting today? >> reporter: they basically built a miniature world of potential terror attacks. the real goal in training is to try to make things as realistic as possible. >> let's go. [sound of gunfire. >> reporter: at the federal law enforcement training center in brunswick, georgia, they use blank ammunition but real acto actors. >> we can't simulate behavior, have you to use people to simulate behavior. >> reporter: 60,000 federal agents a year come to the 1600-acre site complete with mock airplanes, bars and a test track. the important thing if performing a pit ma few sre a

pit maneuver is location. terror events from the past like a saran gas subway attack are rehearsayed besides potential future attacks like improvised explosive devices. >> we are prepared domestically for any type of treat and we will be able too defeat that threat should it occur here in the united states. >> reporter: response training to abductions or active shooters is only part of the mission. >> we can't afford to just respond to incidents any more. we have to prevent things from happening. >> reporter: you get a real sense here from talking to the instructors of just how urgent they feel about trying not just to train responders but to try to prevent future attacks. martha. martha: that is fascinating. look out behind you there is a little bit of smoke coming out of that truck back there, steve. very interesting look, thank you so much. brunswick, georgia they are learning all that. bill: let's put it to use. breaking news in the financial crisis that is facing any

american, word of a back up plan, plan b, details of what the house speaker just outlined and what it could mean for each and every one of you.

martha: we leave you with this interesting royal tidbit today. the queen of england raised some eyebrows because she made a visit to downing street. usually downing street comes to the queen but sat in on a cabinet meeting. that is the first time a sitting monarch has done that since queen victoria sat in on cabinet meetings. was set to attend as observer. it is seen to be controversyal. she has some duties related to government but must remain neutral on political matters. david cameron and other prime ministers value the queen's advice. bill: she is watching. those guys better shape up. she is checking in making sure they're doing everything all right. by the way, great to be back with you today. martha: good to have you back.